“If we describe scientifically, that means it is kirtana”
19 Sep 1972, Los Angeles
SP: Therefore they are suffering only for the matter of knowing something, kevala krishanti.kevala [indistinct word]. Krishanti means taking trouble unnecessarily. What do you gain by this knowledge? You cannot solve your problems.
BSDS: That is why the brains of the scientists are very busy in thinking all these things, how to try to understand this natural phenomena, all the time busy.
SP: Therefore Bhagavat says, idaḿ hi puḿsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā[i] . Your education, brain should be uitlised how to know God. Not that how the chemical is deposited, you see. avicyuto ‘rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. Rather try to describe how Krsna, God, has made this arrangement. Then it will be kirtana. Simply add this verse that God has deposited this way, this way. That will be described in the Bhagavatam, one after another how creation is being made. But the original point is creator is God. How God is creating, if we describe scientifically, that means it is kirtana, chanting the glories of the Lord. That they will not do…they’ll end.. “perhaps, maybe” that’s all. “Perhaps, maybe” that’s all. At least Einstein at last he admitted “maybe there is God” like that?
BSDS: Yes. He believes that the natural laws are governed by controllers, different controllers
SP: Oh he believes?
BSDS: Einstein believes. Like Einstein’s- one of his - like Fermi or Dirac- there exists a very famous scientist, almost contemporary and he did not believe in the existence of God. When Einstein developed his theory of relativity, Heisenberg and Fermi, and Max Planck in Germany. So they invited Einstein and so Einstein was thinking that these laws are controlled by some unknown controller. He did not know but so Fermi and this Heisenberg -..
SP: Bhagavat avigyatha Everything is there ….‘avigyatha friend.’ I’ve got a friend but I do not know he’s helping behind. Avigyatha.
BSDS: Actually, we encounter everyday the existence of the supreme brain. Just for example, in the chemical laboratory, we make different crystals like different salts and they have very definite and complete organized crystalline structures, different from each type of crystal and these are made just automatically. No one – just mix some things, and then the crystal grows with a definite geometrical shape, beautiful arrangements all the crystals.
SP: What is that crystals?
BSDS: So for example, salts of chromium, magnesium and nickel, these they combine with different anionic radicals, and then, just keep together for a few days.
SP: Crystals…
BSDS: Yes, these are called crystals. Like quartz – quartz is a crystal. In a diamond for example. These are called crystals in chemical terms.
Devotee: Also snowflakes…
BSDS: Yes, snow also…
Devotee: Snowflakes, water…
BSDS: Yes, the water is a definite shaped crystal, it cannot be changed. It always remains the definite crystal structure.
SP: They are called molecules?
BSDS: Yes, these are called molecules. They call the molecular framework. These are arranged by – it’s a beautiful, beautiful arrangement. Like for example, sodium chloride has hexagonal shape, and geometrical, and beautiful arrangement in the crystal structure. They’re studying by a technique called x-ray crystallography. So they make a small crystal and put under the x-ray beam and then X-ray beam is photographed, and from the photograph, we can see where the
sodium atom is staying in the space and chlorine is staying in the space and they have a beautiful picture in the film. From there, you can understand the arrangement of the atoms.
SP: And we understand within the atom there is God. aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham[ii]
Devotee: The snow…
BSDS: Yes.
Devotee: When the snow falls each flake of snow is perfectly symmetrical. Different patterns and each pattern is different from every other pattern.
BSDS: Yes, for example, this coal tar, these are different arrangements of so called molecules of benzene. These molecules are hexagonal, the six sides are completely all the same, symmetrical. What happens is, one after another, there are different layers of this six faced hexagonal molecules and so they combine together and form this coal tar. The same thing with diamond also. The structure is very similar with coal tar. But only the – layers are different…
SP: [indistinct verse]
BSDS: These are all arranged by most powerful brain.
SP: As soon as you accept brain, He must be a person.
BSDS: Yes.
SP: So God is a person. (pause) God cannot be impersonal (pause). By this scientific explanation, come to the conclusion, “God is a person”. And we accept Him as supreme, paramah…Ishvarah paramah krsna, supreme brain. Acintya medha, inconceivable brain. These are.descriptions. Jiva Goswami has said that unless you accept God having inconceivable brain, He cannot be God. (pause) Small teeny seed, there is a big banyan tree, whole potency is there [indistinct words]. Similarly the whole universe is also put in a small atomic grain, that is coming out from Vishnu’s body and they are developing this.
Devotee: Sometimes in the ancient Egyptian graves, they find grains. When they plant those grains, they again grow even after they’ve been in the graves 2000 years, dormant.
SP: seed is [indistinct] Bijam mam sarva-bhutanam. What is the time?
Devotee: Seven o’clock.
SP: If we present scientifically about the existence of God, that will be a great service. Think over discuss, here’s a scientist and try to write articles. (pause) He’s not protesting, he’s supporting us, so this is a great chance.
Devotee: Last night I was listening to that tape made with that Indian scientist in your room. Such a rascal. His argument was so easily defeated. It all came down to he doesn’t believe and we believe. He doesn’t believe in Krishna and we believe in Krishna. That’s the ultimate conclusion.
BSDS: His arguments were self defeating.
SP: eh?
BSDS: Self defeating. He says something and say again opposes .
SP: Self-contradictory.
Devotee: He had to admit that that there was some kind of intelligence behind [indistinct word]’
SP: (laughs) Then why not God?
Devotee: He makes a contradiction.
SP: Intelligence means person. Brain means person.
Devotee: He has to admit God. We asked him If he thought everything just happened by chance, or random, he said ‘ no, there’s some kind of plan, some kind of intelligence, order.’ Then later on we asked him if the universe was perfect- if the complete the universe was perfect., He said ‘no’ – contradiction.
SP: He said universe is not perfect?
Devotee: Yeah. That’s what we scientists work for – to make it perfect.
SP: Yes.
(sound of car starting)
SP: Our knowledge is perfect because it is coming from Krishna. The Supreme perfect. (pause)
What is this boat, shipping?
Devotee: Fishing.
(SP chanting Hare Krishna)
SP: [indistinct sloka] The greatest scientist is the Krsna conscious person.
BSDS: In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says to Arjuna ,17th Chapter, up to 17th chapter, surrender unto Krishna and then in the end, in the 18th Chapter, Krsna says, I’ve given you the full knowledge, now it is up to you to whether to accept or not to accept, so that all shows how merciful is Krishna..
SP: He has given us full freedom. Full freedom we cannot enjoy, that is not possible , but as far as the question of our constitution is concerned, there is freedom. Just like the parents give the child freedom, that is not full freedom but he does not feel.
Devotee: (while driving) Ooh, man almost got hit. Not very attentive (laughter).
SP: (chants for a while) The devotee of the Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu , what to speak of the scientists, even great demigods like Brahma, Indra ,they are also considered [indistinct words].
(chants)
SP: I think there’s a little garden in front of our house?
Devotee: small but..
SP: They are taking care?
Devotee: They started but its being neglected for now.
SP: They should take care.
(End)
[i] idaḿ hi puḿsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto ‘rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam.
Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry (SB 1.5.22)
[ii] eko ‘py asau racayituḿ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiḿ
yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ
aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham-
govindam ādi-puruṣaḿ tam ahaḿ bhajāmi
He is an undifferentiated entity as there is no distinction between potency and the possessor thereof. In His work of creation of millions of worlds, His potency remains inseparable. All the universes exist in Him and He is present in His fullness in every one of the atoms that are scattered throughout the universe, at one and the same time. Such is the primeval Lord whom I adore (Brahma Samhita 5.35)
Transcriber: Bhaktin Preetha
Editor: Rupachandra Das
Date: 16th August 2007
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